SoCalHoops High School News

CIF-SS Playoffs: What You Need To
Know (& Where To Get More Info)--(Feb. 7, 2002)

This is compiled from the CIF-SS Basketball Playoff Handbook and the Southern Section's "Blue Book" which is the CIF-SS version of the State CIF Bylaws, with a few changes and more restrictive tweaks where necessary.    We'll provide this in question and answer format, principally because we're tired of trying to answer these same questions on the message board.  Hopefully people with questions will refer to this during the playoffs, because it should answer most questions which come up about the process and the "when and where" type of question.

And by the way, the entire CIF-Southern Section Basketball Playoff Handbook is availalble for downloading online at the CIF-SS website.  (It's not directly viewable online, but must be downloaded and it's in MS Word format, so you'll need a text editor capable of reading that format ).

Alternatively, we've converted the original CIF Word-formatted Handbook into a convenient PDF format (you'll need Adobe Acrobat Reader to view it) and it's at this link.  If you have questions which aren't answered here, then check the handbook, because it's got the answer to virtually any and all questions to which you might need an answer.

Question:  When will you post the brackets and the schedules?

Answer:   The brackets will be announced on Sunday at Gahr HS (which is next door to the CIF-SS offices).  We'll have the brackets posted here on SoCalHoops late afternoon on Sunday.

They will also likely be available at the LA Times Prep website, and at the official CIF-SS website on Sunday as well.

Question: When do the Southern Section playoffs begin?

Answer: Next week.  The last regular season games must be concluded today, February 8, and no other games can be played after tonight's games.  Here are the schedules of games that will be played, and as you will see, the actual schedule that a team might be looking at will depend on the size of the bracket in any given division.  The CIF-SS will look to use 32 team brackets if possible in all divisions, and will endeavor to avoid using 64 team brackets this year, according to Thom Simmons, the Media Representative for the Southern Section office. 

BOYS' BASKETBALL PLAYOFF DATES, SITES FOR 2002

All games in the playoffs will be played at 7:30 p.m

32 TEAM BRACKET WITH BYES

FULL 32 TEAM BRACKET NO BYES

16 TEAM BRACKET WITH BYES

FULL 16 TEAM BRACKET, NO BYES

CHAMPIONSHIP FINALS

1. In all divisions, the semifinal and championship games shall be played on ALTERNATE COURT sites For any playoff contest, the Commissioner may direct that the contest be played on an alternate court if the host court does not meet CIF-SS playoff standards or will not accommodate the anticipated crowd.

2. IF TEAMS FROM THE SAME SCHOOL GEOGRAPHICAL AREA ADVANCE TO THE FINALS, THE PRINCIPALS (WITH CIF-SS OFFICE APPROVAL) MAY MOVE THE GAME TO THEIR RESPECTIVE AREA. ADDITIONALLY, THE CIF-SS RESERVES THE RIGHT TO SHIFT CHAMPIONSHIP GAMES DEPENDING ON TRAVEL RESTRICTIONS AND SCHOOL LOCATION.

Doubleheaders will only be permitted if both boys and girls teams are from the same schools.

GIRLS' BASKETBALL PLAYOFF DATES, SITES FOR 2002

32 TEAM BRACKET WITH BYES

FULL 32 TEAM BRACKET, NO BYES

16 TEAM BRACKET WITH BYES

FULL 16 TEAM BRACKET, NO BYES

CHAMPIONSHIP FINALS

SPECIAL NOTES:

1. If both the boys and girls teams from the same school are scheduled to play a semifinal game on Tuesday, February 26, the girls game will be played on Wednesday, February 27.

2. In all divisions, the semifinal and championship games shall be played on ALTERNATE COURT sites. For any playoff contest, the Commissioner may direct that the contest be played on an alternate court if the host facility does not meet CIF-SS playoff standards or will not accommodate the anticipated crowd.

3. IF TEAMS FROM THE SAME SCHOOL GEOGRAPHICAL AREA ADVANCE TO THE FINALS, THE PRINCIPALS (WITH CIF-SS OFFICE APPROVAL) MAY MOVE THE GAME TO THEIR RESPECTIVE AREA. ADDITIONALLY, THE CIF-SS RESERVES THE RIGHT TO SHIFT CHAMPIONSHIP GAMES DEPENDING ON TRAVEL RESTRICTIONS AND SCHOOL LOCATION.

Now to the nitty-gritty, the real Q&A:

Question:  How many teams get selected as "automatic" entries to the playoffs?

Answer:  As adopted by the CIF Southern Section Council, LEAGUE ENTRIES WILL BE LIMITED TO THE FOLLOWING:

4 Team Leagues -- 2 Entries Guaranteed Only
5 Team Leagues -- 3 Entries Guaranteed Only
6 Team Leagues -- 3 Entries Guaranteed Only
7 Team Leagues -- 4 Entries Guaranteed Only
8 Team Leagues -- 4 Entries Guaranteed Only
9 Team Leagues -- 4 Entries Guaranteed Only

In the Southern Section, league finish means just about everything (well, not really, but it's close).  If a team finishes out of the "guaranteed" entry placing, the only thing left to do is to petition to be an "at-large" team.  A team can only petition to be an "at-large entry" if they have won at least 11 games overall.

Question: Ok, I understand about league finish.  But what about two teams that tie?  What happens if two teams are tied for 1st place?  What happens if there's a tie for the last "automatic" entry?

Answer:   This is a multipart question, and so there are multiple answers:

1. In the case of a tie between two teams for a league championship (or any other place besides the last guaranteed entry), the league is required to designate which is No. 1 and which is being entered as the No. 2 league representative.  

This becomes important for determining seeding or first round game matchups, because the CIF-SS bylaws require that No. 2 teams play No. 3 teams in the first round if possible so that the games are more balanced, and No. 1 teams get either an at-large or a No. 4 entry if possible, to insure that No. 1 teams have the competitive advantage which they deserve by finishing higher throughout the course of the season and in league.   Leagues can employ any procedure they desire to break ties except that no additional "playoff" games can be scheduled.   In other words, if two teams are tied for first, and they have already played the maximum number of games (20 games total,  with a maximum of three tournaments, each of which counts for two games and is added to reach the total of 20), no playoff game can be scheduled and the league will have to use some other procedure for determining who is first and who is second.   These designations by the way don't have anything to do with whether a league has "co-champions" but are only used by the CIF-SS to determine where within a particular bracket a team should be placed.    Co-Championships, or ties for second, third or fourth are real,  but for purposes of playoffs, the CIF requires leagues to designate

2.  There's an exception to #1 above (hey, there's an exception to every rule, right?):   If two teams tie for first place in a league and are going to be placed in different playoff divisions (e.g., one in Division V-AA and another in IV-A), each will be allowed to take their No.1 entry with them.

The only time it will be necessary for leagues to determine their respective #1, #2, #3 and #4 entry is if the teams are playing in the SAME DIVISIONS.

3.  In the case of a tie between two teams for the league's final "guaranteed" entry, the league can employ the same procedure used above to break a tie, or it can schedule a playoff game, but only if there is sufficient time and only if the Commissioner of the CIF-SS approves.  Such playoff games may only be used except to determine the last "guaranteed" entry, and then can only be played if there is sufficient time to do so, i.e., this year not later than today, February 8, 2002. 

Question:    How big will the brackets be this year?

Answer:   As alluded to above with the realignment of divisions to achieve more balanced numbers, the CIF-SS is going to maintain the brackets at either 16 or 32 teams depending on the number of entries submitted.  In divisions where there are more teams than the bracket will allow, "wild card" games will be played to reduce the field to accommodate the bracket.

Question:  What does the selection committee look at in constructing the brackets?

Answer:  This is from the CIF-SS Basketball playoff handbook:

"A selection committee will utilize the following information in its selection process, with each having no specific weight and/or order preference:

a) Head-to-head competition of teams under consideration.
b) Overall strength of the league in which the team participates.
c) Overall won/loss record.
d) League finish.
e) Strength against common opponents.
f) Strength of schedule.
g) Strength at end of season (whether team has lost its last three games or won its last three games, etc.)
h) Freelance teams will be part of the pool for the filling of "At Large" berths.

Question: What is the 11-win rule?

Answer: As noted above, the CIF-SS Bylaws allow a team with more than 11wins overall, which doesn't qualify as an "automatic" league entry into the playoffs to file a petition requestring entry as an "at-large" entry.  The CIF-SS Bylaws DO NOT GUARANTEE ENTRY for teams that petition, and according to the CIF-SS officials we spoke with, there is no guarantee that there will be enough available spots in a given bracket to accomodate all teams that may file petitions.  In other words, even though a team has 11 wins overall and files a petition, it's discretionary with the seeding committee.

While the policy has always been, at least for the past three seasons, to accomodate every team that filed a petition, this year the divisions have been realigned, and there will probably not be any 64-team brackets except perhaps in Division V-A.  Again, it all depends on how many wild-card and other open spots will exist in a given division's bracket.

A school which is seeking entry into the playoffs as an "at-large team" is also required to fax or personally deliver to the CIF it's roster and season schedule information as part of the petition (coaches will all have these forms, use it if it's applicable to your situation). This information below comes from the CIF-SS Playoff Handbook for 2002 (and its in all caps because it's really, really important, and the CIF means what it says, no ifs, ands or buts):

IMPORTANT: TO BE CONSIDERED FOR AN AT-LARGE BERTH, A TEAM MUST HAVE WON AT LEAST 11 GAMES FOR ITS COMPLETE SCHEDULE AND SUBMITTED AN AT-LARGE PETITION.

SCHOOLS WISHING TO BE ENTERED AS AN AT-LARGE TEAM MUST SUBMIT A PETITION OF THEIR COMPLETED SCHEDULE ON THE FORM INCLUDED IN THIS MAILING NO LATER THAN 9:00 A.M. ON SATURDAY, FEBRUARY 9, 2002.

Trust us, they mean what they say.   Just ask the schools in prior years who didn't get in because they didn't submit their paperwork to the CIF-SS office on time.....Coaches:  Be sure to get with your A.D.'s and make sure they do their jobs correctly. Assume nothing. Check the paperwork, and if necessary, drive to the CIF-SS office to hand-deliver the stuff yourself.

Question:  Who actually constructs the brackets?

Answer:  The Commissioner (Jim Staunton) is actually charged with the responsibility of constructing the playoff brackets.  As a practical matter, the task is delegated to the Assistant Commissioner for Basketball (Paul Castillo), and he works with a select group of coaches and other CIF-SS staff members in putting together the brackets.

We're not certain if some or all of the coaches listed below in boys' basketball will assist with constructing  the brackets this year, but the coaches listed below are the members of the 2001-02 Boys & Girls Basketball Advisory Committees, and as in years past, it would not be unusual to have them helping out in the process:

Question:   How is the bracket actually put together, and what's a "seeded" team?

Answer:   Here's the process:

STEP #1  DETERMINING "SEEDED" TEAMS - The initial step for the bracket committee to consider when constructing the brackets is to designate four teams (at most four teams) as "seeds", with No. 1 and No. 4 placed in the top bracket and No. 2 and No. 3 in the bottom bracket (see diagram 1). An exception to this procedure would be if seeds in the same half of the bracket are from the same league. If this occurs, using the example of the top half of the bracket, No. 4 would then become the No. 3 seed and No. 3 seed would fill the No. 4 position to separate the league representation.  A league No. 2 entry may not be seeded higher than a No. 1 entry from the same league.

Question:    Why aren't there more than 4 seeded teams in any bracket?  The NCAA seeds everyone, so why can't the CIF do it with a 32-team bracket?

Answer: While it might be "possible" thoeretically to designate more than four "seeds" the CIF doesn't do it.  Here's what the Handbook says:

"The task would be virtually impossible on two counts. Attempting to delineate which team is the No. 7 seed, as opposed to No. 8 or No. 12 rather than No. 13 would result in 25 different answers by 25 different people. Additionally, an attempt at a Atrue seed@ would be in opposition to the CIF-SS Constitution and By-Laws, which specify a league=s designated No. 1 entry shall meet a No. 3 entry and a No. 2 shall meet another No. 2 where the draw provides for same in the opening round."

Question:    What's the next step in filling the bracket after picking the 4 top seeds?

Answer:  The next step is to fill the bracket draw and a simple guideline provides the ground rules for same.

First, it is assumed that the top four seeds are all "No. 1" teams from their respective leagues.  Assuming this to be the normal case, if there are any other teams from the same league in the same bracket, the committee looks to insure that the No. 2 league entries are placed in an opposite half of the bracket so that the No. 1 and No. 2 entries from a particular league don't meet in the second round.   After placing all of the 1 and 2 entries in a bracket, the final step is to place the No. 3 teams in the remaining open slots, attempting to place each in one of the remaining quarters of the bracket where the league is not represented. This process eliminates the aspect of schools from the same league meeting in the second round of competition. An exception to this procedure occurs where geography does not permit wide placement. The directive of the CIF Southern Section Council (from its meeting on March 13, 1980), directs schools be placed in the same half, and if necessary, quarter of the bracket, to curtail excessive travel, is followed. Another factor utilized when formulating initial pairings, is to review the playoff bracket for the previous years, in an effort not to match identical teams which may have been paired the previous year or two years back. This would not preclude two leagues being matched in consecutive years, but with two different representative schools.

Again, for more information, check out the official Handbook from the CIF-SS website....

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